problems after Pix 515e of 6.34 to 7.12

Similar Questions

• PIX 515E configuration problems

  I have a UR PIX 515 (6.3.2 os) that works really well, so I copy the configuration on my new PIX 515E-R (os 6.3.2). The PIX 2 have exactly the same configuration. But when I use the PIX 515E-R, I have some problems with the PIX 515E r only

  -I can't access the Internet, but I can ping the router Internet of my PIX 515E. The problem, in my view, must be with the Internet router, not on my external interface.

  -J' have a similar problem with my DMZ. I can ping to the DMZ, a frame relay router interface, but I can't pass this router.

  Is it possible that PIX 515E-R is not compatible with the router? and not the PIX 515 HEART?

  Thanks for your replies.

  Hello

  Just a thought, try clearing the PRA of table on the router and see what happens. Let me know if it helps.

  Jay

• Problem of NAT with PIX 515E

  I configured a PIX 515E, OS 7.0 (1) f? PAT r dynamic of the inside of the network to the external ip address of the PIX. I also configured for icmp access lists from inside to outside and inside. All traffic (www, dns, ftp, etc.) works very well except ping. Whenever I do a ping from host inside to any address outside, I get the following error messages:

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:52 | 609002: duration of disassembly-outside local host: 193.222.224.104 0:00:10

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:52 | 302021: connection of disassembly ICMP for faddr gaddr laddr 8994/FDFR001 212.203.90.59/9 193.222.224.104/0

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:50 | 302021: connection of disassembly ICMP for faddr 193.222.224.104/0 gaddr 212.203.90.59/8 laddr FDFR001/8993

  4. August 24, 2006 11:10:50 | 106023: Deny icmp src, dst outside: 193.222.224.104 inside: 212.203.90.59 (type 0, code 0) by access-group "outside_access_in".

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:50 | 302020: ICMP connection built for faddr gaddr laddr 8994/FDFR001 212.203.90.59/9 193.222.224.104/0

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:48 | 302021: connection of disassembly ICMP for faddr 193.222.224.104/0 gaddr 212.203.90.59/7 laddr FDFR001/8992

  4. August 24, 2006 11:10:48 | 106023: Deny icmp src, dst outside: 193.222.224.104 inside: 212.203.90.59 (type 0, code 0) by access-group "outside_access_in".

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:48 | 302020: ICMP connection built for faddr 193.222.224.104/0 gaddr 212.203.90.59/8 laddr FDFR001/8993

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:46 | 302021: connection of disassembly ICMP for faddr 193.222.224.104/0 gaddr 212.203.90.59/6 laddr FDFR001/8991

  4. August 24, 2006 11:10:46 | 106023: Deny icmp src, dst outside: 193.222.224.104 inside: 212.203.90.59 (type 0, code 0) by access-group "outside_access_in".

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:46 | 302020: ICMP connection built for faddr 193.222.224.104/0 gaddr 212.203.90.59/7 laddr FDFR001/8992

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:44 | 302021: connection of disassembly ICMP for faddr 193.222.224.104/0 gaddr 212.203.90.59/5 laddr FDFR001/8990

  4. August 24, 2006 11:10:44 | 106023: Deny icmp src, dst outside: 193.222.224.104 inside: 212.203.90.59 (type 0, code 0) by access-group "outside_access_in".

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:44 | 302020: ICMP connection built for faddr 193.222.224.104/0 gaddr 212.203.90.59/6 laddr FDFR001/8991

  4. August 24, 2006 11:10:42 | 106023: Deny icmp src, dst outside: 193.222.224.104 inside: 212.203.90.59 (type 0, code 0) by access-group "outside_access_in".

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:42 | 302020: ICMP connection built for faddr 193.222.224.104/0 gaddr 212.203.90.59/5 laddr FDFR001/8990

  6. August 24, 2006 11:10:42 | 609001: built outside local host: 193.222.224.104

  What could be the problem?

  Thank you, Meg

  It's only to predict the responses of echo at all on the external interface. If you do the following ACL on the outside, it should work...

  outside_access_in list extended access permit icmp any any echo response

• ASDM 5.02 on PIX-515E

  When I use ASDM to administer my PIX-515E (v7.0), I get messages from 2 following error if I update the screen after being inactive in the session for about 2-3 minutes about:

  Error message 1

  ASDM is temporarily unable to communicate with the firewall.

  Error message 2

  ASDM is unable to reach the PIX. Please check the configuration and your connection and try again by clicking the Refresh button.

  These messages were recently and I don't know why. Is there an ASDM idle session time-out setting? I could not found.

  Thank you

  Bill Fanning

  Hello

  What version of Java are you using. If you have Java 1.6, can you go back to 1.5 and see if the problem goes away.

  Also, here is the URL indicating the operating system for client PC and browser requirements

  http://www.Cisco.com/en/us/partner/docs/security/ASA/asa70/asdm50/release/notes/RN505.html#wp231810

  I hope it helps.

  Kind regards

  Arul

  * Please note all useful messages *.

• Question of BandNew PIX 515E

  I got some new PIX 515E security infra-red and I had sex 2 questions about everything I tried. I installed a 5 port switch inside and cannot ping anything from the console. I have a computer on the switch, and he is able to ping other devices on the switch, but not the PIX.

  What I find strange is that when I try to ping from the inside interface on the PIX of one inside computers, PIX displays the MAC address of the computer inside in the arp table.

  My goal is to upgrade the PIX to ver7.0 but I can't do so until I can solve this problem.

  Here are some information among the PIX.

  #sh worm

  Cisco PIX Firewall Version 6.3 (4)

  Cisco PIX Device Manager Version 3.0 (2)

  Updated Saturday 2 July 04 00:07 by Manu

  pixfirewall up to 29 minutes 33 seconds

  Material: PIX-515E, 128 MB RAM, Pentium II 433 MHz processor

  Flash E28F128J3 @ 0 x 300, 16 MB

  BIOS Flash AM29F400B @ 0xfffd8000, 32 KB

  Hardware encryption device: VAC + (Crypto5823 revision 0 x 1)

  0: ethernet0: the address is 0015.625a.f7da, irq 10

  1: ethernet1: the address is 0015.625a.f7db, irq 11

  2: ethernet2: the address is 000d.8810.902c, irq 11

  3: ethernet3: the address is 000d.8810.902d, irq 10

  4: ethernet4: the address is 000d.8810.902e, irq 9

  5: ethernet5: the address is 000d.8810.902f, irq 5

  Features licensed:

  Failover: enabled

  VPN - A: enabled

  VPN-3DES-AES: disabled

  The maximum physical Interfaces: 6

  Maximum Interfaces: 10

  Cut - through Proxy: enabled

  Guardians: enabled

  URL filtering: enabled

  Internal hosts: unlimited

  Throughput: unlimited

  Peer IKE: unlimited

  This PIX has a failover license only (FO).

  #sh run

  interface ethernet1 100full

  nameif ethernet1 inside the security100

  pixfirewall hostname

  domain testlan

  access-list acl_out permit icmp any one

  No external ip address

  IP address inside 192.168.1.222 255.255.255.0

  No IP failover outdoors

  No IP failover inside

  #sh int e1

  interface ethernet1 'inside' is up, line protocol is up

  The material is i82559 ethernet, the address is 0015.625a.f7db

  IP 192.168.1.222, subnet mask 255.255.255.0

  MTU 1500 bytes, BW 100000 Kbit full duplex

  Hi M8,

  Your firewall has a license of FO, you must enable this device to be able to see it.

  Run the command:

  active failover

  With this command, the device turns into the 'Active' from a perspective of failover state. It will work after that.

  See you soon.

  Salem.

• Cisco VPN Client Authentication - PIX 515E-UR

  Hi all

  I need your expert help on the following issues I have:

  1. I would like to create more than 1 client VPN on my PIX-515E groups. This is so that I can give a different part of the internal network access to different type of VPN connection. For example, I want a group to have no XAUTH, while the other group must use RADIUS XAUTH. Is it possible for me to do this? I see the PIX automatically enable RADIUS on both groups of VPN clients.

  2. the RADIUS server is a Microsoft ISA with IAS server and it is located on the PIX inside interface. The VPN endpoint is external interface of the PIX. Is there a problem with this Setup? Do I need to have the RADIUS server that is located on the external interface?

  3 can. what command I use to debug RADIUS authentication?

  Thanks in advance for your help.

  Hi vincent,.

  (1) you can use the vpngroup *-authentication server ipaddress to specify the IP address of the Radius Server on a particular group... If you do not specify this, the authentication of the user is made locally... also check for vpngroup * order of user authentication

  (2) there should be no problem with the installation of your... should work fine... If the RADIUS is outdoors, it is subject to many attacks... so have it inside...

  (3) use the "RADIUS session debug" or "debug aaa authentication..."

  I hope this helps... all the best... the rate of responses if found useful

  REDA

• PIX 515E for VPN remote site

  Hello

  7.0 (1) version pix

  ASDM version 5.0 (1)

  I have a situation where you go paas-thanks to the VPN feature goes on our PIX 515E. I tried to put this on the pix using a VPN Wizard Site to site

  who is enabled. I was unable to connect to the pix from the remote site. Witch's journal replied negotiate the pix is OK and the success

  The problem is when I try to set up the tunnel to the top of the remote site. I fall without failure.

  where can I see the vpn pix for error log?

  is there a manual for the solution of site to site VPN using the wizard

  Help, please.

  Thanks in advance

  http://www.Cisco.com/en/us/partner/products/HW/vpndevc/ps2030/products_configuration_example09186a00804acfea.shtml#ASDM

  the section 'use adsm' (step 14) gives an example on how to set up vpn lan - lan via adsm

  Newspaper to go to the section "check".

• Question of PIX 515E

  Hi all

  We just bought a PIX 515E and try to use it, but got a number of questions. Here's the NVA of show:

  PIX-151st #show version

  Cisco PIX Firewall Version 6.3 (1)

  Cisco PIX Device Manager Version 3.0 (1)

  Updated Thursday 19 March 03 11:49 by Manu

  PIX-515E up to 5 hours and 15 minutes

  Material: PIX-515E, 64 MB RAM, Pentium II 433 MHz processor

  Flash E28F128J3 @ 0 x 300, 16 MB

  BIOS Flash AM29F400B @ 0xfffd8000, 32 KB

  0: ethernet0: the address is 000f.2457.4b12, irq 10

  1: ethernet1: the address is 000f.2457.4b13, irq 11

  Features licensed:

  Failover: enabled

  VPN - A: enabled

  VPN-3DES-AES: enabled

  Maximum Interfaces: 6

  Cut - through Proxy: enabled

  Guardians: enabled

  URL filtering: enabled

  Internal hosts: unlimited

  Flow: IKE peers unlimited: unlimited

  This PIX has a failover license only (FO).

  Problem is that we cannot ping inner harbor, if we do not switch light, but this is a unique machine. Here's another message once we turn on the switch:

  PIX-515E # config t

  WARNING *.

  Configuration of replication is NOT performed the unit from standby to Active unit.

  Configurations are no longer synchronized.

  PIX-515e (config) #.

  Please help solve this problem. I wonder if we buy the wrong license? Thank you very much.

  you have in your possession a PIX failover. That's why says in the "sh run".

  This device is intended to be used only as a failover for a live device. It will work as a live PIX, but behave badly. It is cheaper than a PIX with an unrestricted license, as it is not intended to be used as a standalone device. Check with the one that you bought to get the situation sorted.

  Good luck

  Steve

• PIX 515E - VPN connections

  Hello

  I have pix 515E and I configured a VPN on it. My users connect to my network from the internet via the Cisco VPN client.

  I have problem, only their LAN machine can do VPN from Cisco VPN client to my network at once.

  Users are connected to the internet via an ADSL router and the LAN switch.

  --------------------------------------------------

  PIX Config:

  6.3 (4) version PIX

  interface ethernet0 car

  Auto interface ethernet1

  ethernet0 nameif outside security0

  nameif ethernet1 inside the security100

  enable encrypted password xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx encrypted passwd

  hostname ABCDEFGH

  ABCD.com domain name

  clock timezone IS - 5

  clock to summer time EDT recurring

  fixup protocol dns-length maximum 512

  fixup protocol ftp 21

  fixup protocol h323 h225 1720

  fixup protocol h323 ras 1718-1719

  fixup protocol http 80

  fixup protocol rsh 514

  fixup protocol rtsp 554

  fixup protocol sip 5060

  fixup protocol sip udp 5060

  fixup protocol 2000 skinny

  fixup protocol smtp 25

  fixup protocol sqlnet 1521

  fixup protocol tftp 69

  inside_out to the list of allowed access nat0_acl ip 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 192.168.2.0 255.255.255.0

  list of allowed shared access ip 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0

  pager lines 24

  Outside 1500 MTU

  Within 1500 MTU

  IP address outside xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx 255.255.255.0

  IP address inside 192.168.1.1 255.255.255.0

  alarm action IP verification of information

  alarm action attack IP audit

  IP local pool vpnpool 192.168.2.1 - 192.168.2.254

  PDM logging 100 information

  history of PDM activate

  ARP timeout 14400

  Global interface 10 (external)

  NAT (inside) 0-list of access inside_out-nat0_acl

  NAT (inside) 10 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0 0

  Route outside 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx 1

  Timeout xlate 03:00

  Timeout conn 01:00 half-closed 0:10:00 udp 0: CPP 02:00 0:10:00 01:00 h225

  H323 timeout 0:05:00 mgcp 0: sip from 05:00 0:30:00 sip_media 0:02:00

  Timeout, uauth 0:05:00 absolute

  GANYMEDE + Protocol Ganymede + AAA-server

  AAA-server GANYMEDE + 3 max-failed-attempts

  AAA-server GANYMEDE + deadtime 10

  RADIUS Protocol RADIUS AAA server

  AAA-server RADIUS 3 max-failed-attempts

  AAA-RADIUS deadtime 10 Server

  AAA-server RADIUS (inside) host ABCDE timeout 10

  AAA-server local LOCAL Protocol

  RADIUS protocol radius AAA-server

  Radius max-failed-attempts 3 AAA-server

  AAA-radius deadtime 10 Server

  RADIUS protocol AAA-server partnerauth

  AAA-server partnerauth max-failed-attempts 3

  AAA-server deadtime 10 partnerauth

  partnerauth AAA-server (host ABCDEFG myvpn1 timeout 10 Interior)

  Enable http server

  http 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 inside

  No snmp server location

  No snmp Server contact

  SNMP-Server Community public

  No trap to activate snmp Server

  enable floodguard

  Permitted connection ipsec sysopt

  Crypto ipsec transform-set ESP-3DES-MD5-esp-3des esp-md5-hmac

  Crypto-map dynamic outside_dyn_map 20 the transform-set ESP-3DES-MD5 value

  map outside_map 65535-isakmp ipsec crypto dynamic outside_dyn_map

  card crypto client outside_map of authentication partnerauth

  outside_map interface card crypto outside

  ISAKMP allows outside

  ISAKMP key * address 0.0.0.0 netmask 0.0.0.0

  ISAKMP identity address

  part of pre authentication ISAKMP policy 8

  ISAKMP strategy 8 3des encryption

  ISAKMP strategy 8 md5 hash

  8 2 ISAKMP policy group

  ISAKMP life duration strategy 8 the 86400

  part of pre authentication ISAKMP policy 10

  ISAKMP policy 10 3des encryption

  ISAKMP policy 10 sha hash

  10 2 ISAKMP policy group

  ISAKMP life duration strategy 10 86400

  vpngroup myvpn address vpnpool pool

  vpngroup myvpn ABCDE dns server

  vpngroup myvpn by default-field ABCD.com

  splitting myvpn vpngroup split tunnel

  vpngroup idle 1800 myvpn-time

  vpngroup myvpn password *.

  Telnet 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 inside

  Telnet timeout 5

  SSH timeout 5

  Console timeout 0

  dhcpd address 192.168.1.200 - 192.168.1.254 inside

  dhcpd dns ABCDE

  dhcpd lease 3600

  dhcpd ping_timeout 750

  field of dhcpd ABCD.com

  dhcpd outside auto_config

  dhcpd allow inside

  Terminal width 80

  --------------------------------------------------

  Thanks in advance.

  -Amit

  Try to add the "isakmp nat-traversal" command to your PIX. I suspect what happens is that Remote LAN users is translated to a single IP address as they pass through the DSL connection. I also assume that the machine doing the translation has a capacity of IPSec passthrough. Linksys routers would be a good example of this type of NAT device that allows IPSec pull-out.

  If that's the case, that a single VPN connection will be able to operate both. The above command will turn PIX detect clients that are located behind a NAT device, and then try to configure the VPN sessions in UDP packets and so to work around the limitation of NAT and IPSec passthrough device.

• PIX 515e Install

  I am installing a PIX 515e with an ADSL router. I have all the IP addresses for the router etc. I'm trying to connect to a network on the interface internal of the PIX. (Please bare with me as I am new on the firewall!)

  I ping the network firewall, but I can not access to the internet. The initial configuration for the PIX documentation implies that by default, it has access form the firewall but no! I'm obviously missing something here, i.e. of Thompson the network to route requests through the firewall interent! ???

  Sorry to be so simplistic but I'm learning all the time!

  Thanks for any help.

  Robin

  After you enter the acl to allow ping, can you ping now?

  Watch newspaper reveal something?

  For DNS and testing, create a static on the PIX for your DNS server. For example "x.x.x.x (indoor, outdoor) static 192.168.0.x netmask 255.255.255.255" where x.x.x.x is a public IP address and 192.168.0.x is your dns server. Then let the outside to your DNS server dns - "access-list 101 permit host udp/tcp host x.x.x.x eq 53 z.z.z.z ' where z.z.z.z is a public dns server (or use one for testing) and x.x.x.x IP NAT'ed to your dns server. See what is happening, look in your journal.

  What version of PIX you run.

  Let know use.

  Steve

• PIX 515E failover recover

  I have two PIX 515E firewall v7.01 configured in a failover scenario.

  The two units were operating without problem. Primary worked very well and the configuration changes have been transferred to secondary school.

  By TAC support, the only thing needed to test the failover was to issue a command to 'reload' in the primary and the secondary, take on main. Then, "active failover" question on the once rebooted device it was up in the secondary role.

  Failover to the secondary unit worked without problem, it is a smooth transition to the secondary unit.

  The problem came in that the original primary unit is stuck in a loop when you try to reload with what looks like now configuration errors. It will not properly start upward.

  Is not a valid procedure to test the failover?

  It seems that in the real world, this could actually happen that failover should work?

  Among what is shown:

  Config ERROR: invalid journal / level keyword specified; level must be emergencies (0) - debugging (7)

  Config error - acl_in list extended access permit tcp any newspaper SMTP host 208.13.32.36 eq

  Out of config line 359, "access-list acl_in exten...". »

  Config sync error: Suite not command could be executed in standby mode

  Platform

  acl_in list access permit tcp any host 208.13.32.36 eq smtp log inactive

  Use BREAK or ESC to interrupt boot.ridge/vlan/modify flash): m

  e inactivea VLAN

  REPLICATION OF CONFIGURATION OF ACTIVE TOWARDS THE RESCUE UNIT IS INCOMPLETE,

  Reading of 115200 bytes of the image of the flash.

  TO AVOID THE EVE OF TAKING OVER AS ACTIVE WITH A PARTIAL CONFIGURATION UNIT, THE EMERGENCY UNIT WILL NOW RESTART *.

  You're not going to like this answer.

  It seems that commands typed in and abstract by cisco in the configuration are not valid when copied/pasted in or when the firewall is rebooted or receives an active firewall configuration.

  I don't know exactly what you did, but here's what I did to reproduce your problem:

  I typed in the command:

  acl_in list access permit tcp any host 208.13.32.36 eq smtp interval 300 inactive information newspaper

  Given that "interval 300 ft newspaper is the default, it is actually saved in the running-config like:"

  acl_in list access permit tcp any host 208.13.32.36 eq smtp log inactive

  It's * not * a command invalid (the word "journal" following address must be a logging level), if you try to kick it. When you restarted the firewall, he tried to shoot the active configuration of the device (because it is now pending), received this line and since he can't run it (because it is not a valid command), it keeps restarting itself so that it cannot take over and be the active firewall.

  Best way to do is to hold this line (and other lines like him) outside the firewall active now - the line is marked "inactive" in any case, this should not affect you. The other way would be to change that line to something by default (the recording level change may be easier). In this way when the primary/secondary itself restarts again, the order received will have a valid log level (or if you take the lines out, they will not be a problem) and will allow the rest of the configuration process.

  You can also report to cisco as a bug, if they are not combing these forums already.

  -Jason

  This rate if this can help.

• Re: Pix 515E

  Hello

  Pix 515E can configure in some point the port will be opened, after this full time will be automatically closed.

  THX

  concerning

  Gilbert

  Hello

  Please indicate the position, if it has helped you in some way.

  -VK

• Cannot ping PIX 515e Interfaces

  I know it's a very silly question for this forum, but I have already tried many things and cannot get the answer from the PIX firewall interfaces.

  It's my (very easy) installation:

  Using a FastEthernet port on router, I have a cable connected directly to the outside I / F of the PIX-515e. (Crossover cable works, I have already tested). Router <-->PIX directly connected.

  I configured the PIX firewall to allow pings (I used different commands):

  ICMP allow any response of echo outdoors

  ICMP allow all outside

  ICMP permitted - echo outside response

  I tried to configure each of them and also combined.

  Also tried to send the PIX to its default values. Supposed to be after that the PIX should allow all pings if no "icmp" command is configured.

  I have configured the ports on both sides to 100 Full

  On both sides of the link (PIX and router) I have the links to the top. The lights are on.

  The 'show interest' on the PIX firewall shows to the top/top

  The same thing on the router...

  The two interfaces are configured in

  10.1.1.0/24 (10.1.1.1 & 10.1.1.2)

  What I am doing wrong?

  This should be very easy...

  Hello

  Majority of the time interfaces refuses explicitly to ICMP packets unless you indicate otherwise. Here is a link to a pretty good setup guide... Have a look at the link to the ping Security Appliance Interfaces section in this guide. I'm really frustrated myself during the installation/testing phase because the pings are not working and it helped. Hope this helps a little and makes your life easier =) (rate if it please and thank you)

  http://www.Cisco.com/en/us/products/ps6120/products_configuration_guide_chapter09186a00805521b6.html#wp1059645

  Thank you

  Chris

• PIX 515E v7 VPN config help

  Hello

  I have a PIX 515E current of execution to 7.

  Is it possible to use VPN with only 1 static IP address from the ISP (no gateway or the ip address of the ISP router is provided).

  I can set up routing on the ADSL modem, but then the PIX does not have a valid Internet IP address?

  I think that v7 does not support PPPOE? so I can't set the mode on the bridged adsl modem?

  Is there a way to fix this?

  Any help appreciated gratefully.

  apply the commands below:

  ISAKMP identity address

  ISAKMP nat-traversal 20

  If the problem persists, then please post the entire config with ip hidden public.

• IPSEC VPN between Pix 515E and 1841 router

  Hi all

  BACKGROUND

  We have implemented a site to site VPN IPSEC between a Pix 515E 8.0 operation (4) and an 1841 using static IP addresses at both ends. We used CCP on the router and the ASDM the pix to build initial tunnels. Now the site with the router is evolving into a dynamic IP address from the ISP so we have implemented dynamic DNS to update dynamic IP address.

  PROBLEM

  The problem is that ASDM will not allow us to set a domain as the address of peers, it will not accept an IP address. We believe that the solution will be to remove the static Crypto map and replace it with a dynamic Crypto map on the side of Pix. Our questions are simply; is this the best solution? can change us the original static list or is it better to delete and make a new dynamic encryption card? Y at - it a shortcut to change the config command-line? This is a real network, so just check it out before make us any changes on the live kit.

  Any help much appreciated.

  You don't have to change anything when the peer-address changes. The dynamic crypto map aims to take dynamic peer connections. The only thing to remember, is that only the dynamic peer can initiate the connection. And you reduce your security if you use Pre-Shared key that now you can use a generic-PSK character.

  As I remember, the PIX / ASA does not support the dynamic use of FQDNs for peer-resolution. This feature is supported in IOS.

  For a feature, it would be preferable to static IP addresses on both sides.