PtByPt; Question of derivatives

Hello

I'm working on a program that read data from serial port (FS = 1000) permanently. I chose to read the data in blocks of 512 loop producer and send it via FIFO to the consumption loop. On the consumption loop, I want to filter and get the signal drift.  I wrote a simple program to illustrate my problem, the program simply produce a sine wave of 128 point per cycle and this wave to filter with a bandpass filter (assuming a 1280 Hz FS). Which works very well! What I don't understand, it is the derived part and meaning of dt. I wait, it should be 1/1280 but this givs an answear wronge. I saw a solution in which they take the difference between Xn - 1 and X 0 of the signal block and insert it into dt if I read the description in the derivtive sense of dt is sampling interval and it should not be less than or equal to zero. So what did I lack?

ahmalk71 wrote: I started with your suggestion, what I get is a derivative that is 63.8 times

If you go through the math, that's right.

d (sin (2 * pi * x 128) /dt = 2 * pi * 128 * cos(2*pi*128x) /dt.)  With dt = 1/1280, that you end up with 20 * pi * cos(2*pi*128x).  20 * pi = ~63.8

Tags: NI Software

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    /* answer rollup */                                                                     /* NEW */
    .j-answer-rollup.span-full-width {
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        SEARCH RESULTS
    */
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    /* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        DOC (USER TIP)
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    /* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        PROFILE
    */                                                                             
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    /* Bio */
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    /* Communities (places) sidebar ui blue marker adjustment
        (according to the sidebar width changed to 166px from 180px for selector: .j-layout-sl.j-browse-places .j-column-s
        in PLACES section)  */
    .j-view-profile .j-second-nav ul > li.active  { width: 156px !important; }

    /* ------------------
        profile specialties and awards
    */
    /* profile status container for specialties and awards */
    .jive-view-profile .profile-status-container { display: none !important; }              /* REFINED */                   

    /* profile modal note status row for specialties and awards */
    .status-row { display: none !important; }                                      
    /* ------------------ */

    /* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        PLACES
    */                                                                             
    /* latest activity column */
    .j-browse-details .j-td-activity { max-width: 650px !important; }

    /* ------------------
        Treatment for narrow window
        Method 1 (minimum optimisation)

        Adjust community list table's shift and margin to maximize its width.
    */                                                                             
    /* ------------------ (currently active) */
    .j-layout-sl.j-browse-places .j-column-wrap-l { margin-left: -166px !important; }
    .j-layout-sl.j-browse-places .j-column-l      { margin-left: 166px !important; }
    .j-layout-sl.j-browse-places .j-column-l      { padding-left: 0px !important; }
    .j-layout-sl.j-browse-places .j-column-s      { width: 166px !important; }
    /* ------------------ */
    /* ------------------
        Treatment for narrow window
        Method 2 (more beneficial to narrow window but has disadvantage for wide window)
       
        Let community list table have full width but not exceed 1019px to make room for sidebar ui (filters & actions).
        If window is wide enough (>=1265px), sidebar ui is displayed next to community list table,
        otherwise it is displayed below or above it (depending upon its document tree order).
       
        * sidebar width (constant)    = 166px
        * community table max width   = 1019px
        * canvas margin-left          = 40px
        * canvas margin-right         = 40px
        ---------------------------------------
        * total                       = 1265px
    */                                                                             
    /* ------------------ (currently commented out) */
/*
    .j-layout-sl.j-browse-places .j-column-wrap-l { max-width: 1019px !important; }
    .j-layout-sl.j-browse-places .j-column-wrap-l { margin-left: 0px !important; }
    .j-layout-sl.j-browse-places .j-column-l      { margin-left: 0px !important; }
    .j-layout-sl.j-browse-places .j-column-l      { padding-left: 0px !important; }
    .j-layout-sl.j-browse-places .j-column-s      { width: 166px !important; }
*/
    /* ------------------ */
}

    Good luck

    H

  • HP Compaq: New question recovery files

    You have been helpful with my previous questions, maybe someone can help me with this.

    I recently convinced me to convert Windows 8 for Windows of 10, in many ways, but has problems.   Another quite serious is that a lot of my files have been created and saved in Microsoft Works and now I find that 10 Windows will not work works.   I still have my Works installation disc, but it grinds soon stopped.

    Is it possible to access or to convert and re - save these files?   I use OpenOffice (instead of the word) but have not been able to make the exchange of "office with" OpenOffice, even if it is a download some simple files in Notepad.

    The link I gave you has some OpenOffice associates and other suggestions on how to convert files to be readable by OpenOffice. Of course it included using methods that are not available to you. Just those of derivation and watch others. He suggested variants on OpenOffice, which have the ability to open and convert files as well as some online resources.

  • Question of timebase NI PCI-5154 digitizer drift

    Hello NOR all awaits them:

    We have a NO-PCI5154, used for several years now. We use it to capture waveforms of impulse which we care about timing relationships.

    We operate the digitizer to sampling of 1 GHz and up to today, we assume the sampling rate is precise and constant. Today, a member of group doubt that since the digitizer specfication said, what the time base drift on "±7 ppm / ° C". So if this is true, suppose we have a Temperation of exploitation that is 20 degrees higher than the temperature at which the scanner has been calibrated, then the derivative can reach up to 140 ppm time 1 GHz which is 140 KHz? It would be a killer of our measures.

    Please help clarify this question, then we can estimate errors in our measures.

    Unfortunately, we have no data on the repeatability of the time base drift.

    To calculate the frequency of real-time database, simply reverse the calculations that we've discussed so far.  Measure a source very precise on the digitizer, and any change in frequency of the signal would be caused by the non-ideal time base period.

    For example, you measure a signal from 10 MHz to 1 GHz, and its frequency is reported as 10,001 MHz.  So, we're out of 1 kHz.  1 kHz = 10 MHz * Xppm, solve for x: X = 100 ppm.  Thus, our sample clock runs at 100 ppm.  1 GHz * 100 ppm gives us a period of 0.9999 ns or ns 1,0001.  As our frequency has increased to 1 kHz, the signal was compressed when being interpreted to 1ns dt.  Thus, the real clock period was 1.0001ns.

    Because it sounds like you can't control the temperature of your work environment, to the more specific measures that you can measure the time base clock drift immediately before and after taking your measurements.  If you have run your tests in a controlled temperature environment, you might be able to get away with a measure not time base clock drift as often, but you should always run regularly.  The reason for this is also due to the effects of aging of the time base oscillator (affects all oscillators).  The accuracy of all the oscillators gradually drift or increase over time.  Our specifications, take account of this drift in the external calibration interval, but if you're going to measure the actual accuracy, the time is another factor that will affect the accuracy of the time base.

    For completeness, I also need to say, that when you measure your test signals ppm accuracy, this shows absolute precision, not only the accuracy of the time base, but also the accuracy of the source of the signal.  So it is very important to have a precise source for the test signals.

    I hope this helps.

    Nathan

  • Delay FPGA using a derived clock

    Hello

    Probably a simple answer to this. I have the PXI-7813R that has a clock of 40 MHz I database I need to create a delay time of 488nSecs in my code. Unfortunately with 40 MHz, I choose 475nSecs or 500nSecs. If I use a clock derived from 80 MHz I get a 487.5 delay which is very close to what I need. However, if I change my level above 80 MHz clock I get various offences of timing during compilation. Is there a way to keep the clock of 40 MHz top-level, but use the clock of 80 MHz for a time delay?

    Thank you

    Andy

    Hi Andrew_Quick

    Do you use this clock derived on a SCTL? I did some research on your question and find Knowledge Base article next talks a little about the way in which the clocks derivatives works with the SCTLs and in section shifts, there is a note that some codes can compile not at higher rates at 40 Mhz due to the time constraints of the FPGA , so I think that you should check that you don't have warnings or suggestions for when creating your clock derived to your target.

    Even if you select the clock 40 MHz as the top level, if you select the clock of 80 MHz for the timed loop, the compiler will have to adapt all functions in the FPGA, and according to the error that you get that may be causing the violation of timing.

    Hope you find it useful!

  • Derived from tables

    Hello

    I'm new to labview and this question might seem insignificant to you.

    Here's what I'm trying to do:

    I have two tables (generated via loops).  I want to calculate the derivative of table 1, with regard to table 2 and then draw the resulting table of the table 2 vs.

    My VI (joint) is not what I'm trying to do.

    Help, please.

    The dt is generally the difference between the x values (function assumes that the x values are equidistant, who they are). Thus, for dt, thake simply the difference between the two adjacent values x.

    All you need is a simple loop? The formula node seems exaggerated, for example, the division by two should be performed once before the loop.

    Here's how you can simplify... makes sense?

  • Issue of signal processing: first slope of tangetial derived vs?

    Hello world

    I have a question about a strain signal processing...

    Do the terms of the "first derivative" and "tangential slope" essentially refers to the exact same property; It is the change in the strain (y) compared to the change in time (x) in a precise point in time...

    I determined the rate of development of strains of calulating the first derivatives all points of data within segement signal of interest and obtained the average value dx/dt for the analysis... Is this the same as "means tangential slope? Or they the different?... My base, understand that they are one and the same... Could someone please confirm or correct this?

    Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

    Kind regards

    Jack

    The tangential slope of a curved line represents the slope of the tangent line to the curve at a point.  This can be calculated by taking the first derivative of the function and the evaluation to the point.  Yes, to all intents and purposes, "first derivative" and "tangential slope" refers to the same property.

    I guess that the average tangential slope could be calculated by taking the average of the evaluated derivatives.  A quick Google search confirms this.  I am a physicist, not a guy from the DSP, so maybe my opinion is not correct.

    You can also watch how you calculate your drift.  The default LabVIEW method is a simple calculation of two points which is very sensitive to noise.  If you have a fairly new version of LabVIEW, there included functions that calculate the Savitzky-Golay coefficients which you then use with the convolution filter to determine derivatives at each point. Savitzky-Golay method essentially computes a method of least squares adjustment to a polynomial to each point and takes the derivative of the polynomial.  This greatly reduces the noise.  Note that the coefficients Savitzky-Golay may be used to generate any order, provided you use enough points for the convolution.  The default value is an order of zero, or smoothing filter.  If your version of LabVIEW is not new enough to contain the Savitzky-Golay coefficient generator, you can do it yourself fairly easily.  A quick search on the internet for "Coefficients of Savitzky-Golay" should give you the formulas.

    However, as you take the average of a lot of points if do you or not will depend on how much noise your data contains, how many points are your average, and how many resolution/precision you need.

    Let us know if you have any other questions.

  • The transfer of the PID block function does not show the derivator.

    Hello

    I try to use the vi of PID, but I when I try the box by itself, it does not behave as a 'classic' PID should behave. The main problem is that I can't see the derivator. In the attached vi, I compare the transfer function of the PID vi with the function of transfer of a PID built by me. My version shows should have all what a PID: section integral (with an amplitude decreasing and phase-90), Center (with a constant amplitude and phase 0) and area derived (with the magnitude and the phase of + 90).

    The PID vi shows that the part.

    You can also select a progressive input signal and see the result directly. If you choose a large enough time to bypass (100 times greater than the time to the Integrator), and you look closely at the first part of the output, you will see the choice because of the derivator in my version, but not in the version PID.vi.

    Anyone know what I am doing wrong?

    Kind regards

    Pablo Estevez

    Nathand dear,

    Thanks for your reply, I tried the change and you are right. This shows that's not a PID standard, since this means (and in fact I can see it now by checking within the vi) is not using the derivative of the error, but the derivative of the process variable. I know that it is sometimes used to prevent the effect of fast changing set points, but it's a shame that they don't how about it in the help, and that's not a selectable feature. Do you know if there is a way to edit these pre-packaged vi?

    Another question, about the style of labview. I've included the footage just for the terms of the Group and to make the code more readable separate the integrator of the derivator and not having a knot of tangled signals. Especially when I run the cleaning diagram, it becomes very tangled. I searched for another way to do this (container boxes, groups). Would be nice if you could suggest me something that I can do for her.

    Thanks again,

    Pablo

  • change the driver existing (newbie question)?

    Hello

    We try to change an existing driver, but we are fairly new to Labview. We have a few generic questions, but I'll give you some specific info on what we are trying to do as well.

    We downloaded a driver (for NDI Polaris motion tracker) of the site NOR and want to change that a little bit.

    The zip file contains a subdirectory ndipolaris with 2 files .llb and some .mnu files.

    Our first problem is that if we just open the .llb files, there are a lot of vi in there (including examples of work), but there is no project files, or class definitions. What seems to prevent us from creating a new class that derives from a class that is apparently set in the driver (but which we don't seem to have the definition). Maybe a driver can be distributed without these definitions such as you can use it only, but not change?

    Our second problem is that if we use the method of 'create the new existing driver driver', the Polaris NDI does not appear in the list of existing drivers. (It has copied the directory ndipolaris to the labview/instr.lib directory and restarted labview). (This is probably not a major problem that we could change just the existing driver instead).

    Note that the existing driver works well. We just add a timestamp in the data. The existing driver apparently has a class (called "Info Tool", which is a cluster of a few different types of data) for all these info than the Polaris returns, so we thought to change this class or to derive a new class with added timestamp.

    Sorry if this is a trivial question. Thanks for the pointers.

    Kris

    Hi Dennis

    Thanks to your suggestions, we settled it. We were baffled by the fact that you cannot add controls for "schema". Here's what we did:

    The data group was built using the "bundle by name" function, which takes a bunch of 'model' as input. It is this model that we had to change. However, as the model was a 'constant', it does not appear on the front panel and so we could not add any controls to it. For example, when you view the block diagram, we right-click on the clustering model, converted to a control, and then passed to the façade, created a new control (string) on the front panel and place in the control corresponding to the cluster model. Then we moved to the block diagram and convert our cluster model to a 'constant '.

    Not simple I think, but once you know (get help from you and read a bit of the operating instructions...), it's ok.

    Thanks again

    Kris

  • Accounting of the derivative of the signal

    Hello

    I am a beginner LabVIEW-user and I have a question that maybe painfully obvious for a more experienced user.

    I use a precision Sartorius CP225D balance to save the change of mass scale mg due to withdrawal and the dispensation of a fluid in a container. What is the piece of blocking air flow, bringing the temperature of the room and immutable or reposition the initial load for several hours, a fairly linear and continuous negative drift will occur for the display of the balance. This drift occurs without worrying if there is anything on the scale or not. I use VI Sartorius provided to read and note the readings.

    How can I use LabVIEW to adjust this signal for this negative drift using the linear relationship I can derive from the previous examples of execution? I tried to collect the signal of the difference between the display of the balance and the linear relationship that I approached, but with time, even this manipulated signal falls to the display of the exact balance if he were allowed to run without being manipulated. Better yet, how can I manipulate the signal of a frame sequence curve flat prior connection for the signal already recorded in the following picture?

    I would appreciate any guidance or assistance that could lead me to a solution. I tried to contact helpline Sartorius, but little help was offered. I will share as much information as possible.

    Thank you for reading this,

    Zach

    Zach,

    The instrument drift probably not linearly forever or the value wouldn't finally out of reach.  The manual I have donwloaded requires 30 miniute, 4 hours or 24 hours of warm-up, depending on the model and the application.

    You can try saving records once per minute for 24 hours, starting by an intstrument of cold and let it run as stable an environment that you have available? Note the temperature, if possible.  Never stabilizes the drift?

    What is drifting from the signal you need to measure? What is drifting? How fast your fluid distribution affect the readings?

    Lynn

  • Calculation of derivative of clock for the NI 9234 module

    Hello! I am relatively new to the use of material OR (and DAQ hardware in general), so this is probably going to be a really basic question.

    We plan to use two 9181 chassis cDAQ with two modules NI 9234 sample data on 8 physical channels simultaneously at a rate of 25600Hz. As we use the 9181 chassis we cannot material synchronization as described in this topic:

    https://forums.NI.com/T5/Multifunction-DAQ/trigger-acquisition-across-multiple-compactDAQ-chassis/TD-...

    «CDAQ-9181 will be out of the question because, as you said, it does not accessible PFI lines from the outside and you can not use a digital module for synchronization in a carrier case, because who was going to occupy the only available unit.»

    We need the synchronization between the channels to be accurate to ±100ms. According to the http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/374238c.pdfspecifications, the time base internal master (fM) has a frequency of 13,1072 MHz and an accuracy of ± 50 ppm. I'm trying to calculate the maximum amount of the derivative of the clock, more than 1 hour. The selected sampling rate influence the result?

    I think what meant Henrik was to connect the same signal to a channel on each of the two modules. This way, you have two digital versions of the same signal with each being scanned by a different clock. As long as it has the signal which can be identified in the worst case timing difference, you can determine that the sample [e] in a set of data has occurred at the same time (period a sample) as sample [k] with the other set of data.  Then, you apply this synchronization relationship to all other channels in the two modules.

    Strictly speaking, it is the difference in frequency between the two clocks, no drift.  Data sheet specifies the precision of freqeuncy as +/-50 ppm, but specifies no drift at all. Drift has usually two components - temperature and duration. Drift in temperature is specified as ppm/degree, while the drift of time (also known as aging) can be specified as ppm per year. The two drift coefficients are usually smaller than the specification of the accuacy. It is not unlikely that the precision specification can include effects of drift.

    If clocks drift significantly for the duration of your run, you may need to correct calendar several places in the data set.  If the two chassis are physically close, any change in temperature will probably be very similar for both devices and aging is generally not relevant for periods of one hour. I suspect that the initial frequency differences are the only things that will be of interest to you. If a few ppm drift issues, let the two devices to heat for an hour before starting the test. This should be enough to stabilize temperatures.

    Lynn

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